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Economy Talk with David Bly | Steve Soderlund and taking care of our children
9 comments to Economy Talk with David Bly | Steve Soderlund and taking care of our childrenLeave a Reply |
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David, Wow, just listened to the broadcast. At least you two geniuses recognize that ignorance is indeed an enemy of liberty. If only you guys could manage every aspect of the economy and each of our lives from birth to death. Well, in any event, thanks for a great half hour of entertainment and best wishes to you in retirement. You continue to motivate all conservatives in earshot. Make it a great day and damn those evil rich.
Gentlemen-
Your disconnection from reality is complete. Your dreams of centrally planning the economy and treating us like fruitflies have no better chance of success than the Gosplan of the late Soviet Union. How many socialist systems need to fail before you admit defeat?!! It is simply impossible to equitably “redistribute” (legalized theft if we avoid the euphemism) resources from above! No one, especially you failed politicians, are smart enough to plan such a thing from the top down. It leads to even greater inefficiencies and eventual collapse of the system, or the “infrastructure”, as you thieves like to call it. Without the happy and productive top 1% of the earning food chain, you have NOTHING! They already pay 30% of the tax burden even now and squeezing them harder will have ripple effects which are impossible to model, but certainly predictable via historical evidence. Hiring will slow down, since the top producers do the hiring. Spending will slow down across the board as one failure follows another in a gigantic liberal malaise. Perhaps you say to yourselves that WE are the annointed ones… only WE can make the perfect socialist system by learning from the mistakes of Lenin/Marx/Mao/Castro. Everyone thinks so, but it simply does not work. Socialism goes against nature itself. The natural worlds thrives and succeeds on the altar of competition, survival of the fittest and the action/reaction dynamics of the animal kingdom. A few eggheads in a room cannot undo or add to 5 billion years of evolution here on earth. You cannot plan this economy nor should you try. Who are the “chosen ones” who should tell the rest of us how to spend our money??
If I hear anyone talk about the “children” one more time, I think I’ll hurl on the spot. You are using them like “human shields” similar to Hamas in Palestine. You dangle out a few disadvantaged kids so as to reach into our pockets involuntarily! How dare you capitalize on the tragedy of a few to organize the theft of all! This is nothing more than the politics of ENVY! It is a stirring of class warfare that will keep you elected again and again. If you keep on feeding the people you make dependent, you will stay in power… or so you think! The Tea Party has arisen out of every walk of life in this country to stop these wet dreams of turning America into an ant farm. They would rather perish than be told how to live by the likes of you two.
Charles
Charles,
I find your comments very strange. Taxes are not theft but the bill we all must pay for the government services that provide for a civil society and reflect our values and beliefs as a nation. When the top 5% of the wealthy in our country control 60% of the wealth a tax percentage of 30% seems like a real bargain. In fact their taxes have never been lower than they are today in the last 60 years. History shows that our economy thrived when the tax rate on the wealthy was at almost 90% of income. Lower taxes on the wealthy brings us a flagging economy, corporate hostile takeovers, job losses, exporting jobs and our industrial base resulting in our current high unemployment and poverty levels, the shrinking of our middle class and the widest income gap in many years. At this rate it won’t be long before 90% of us have almost nothing while the super rich own everything and they will have completely won the class war they have waged against the rest of us.
Speaking of thieves, in case you had not noticed, many have had their mortgages, their pensions, their jobs stolen by bailed out banksters who are now richer than they were before the heist started.
Government is the institution that should be able to solve the problems we face as a nation. If it cannot solve them we may well be lost as a nation. The Koch brother funded TEA Party (which looks a lot like an ant farm) may yet destroy our country. I hope not.
Hey David-
You’re sniffing glue. I had something more erudite to say, but that’s all that came to mind when I read your last paragraph. Government? The answer to ANYTHING??? Medicare? A resounding government success? BROKE. Social security? BROKE. USPostal Service? BROKE. The federal govt itself? 14 TRILLION in debt… insolvent and unable to pay its own bills. What in God’s green earth convinces you that such an incompetent organization could possibly be the answer to ANYTHING? Your arguments above are obviously null and void after that last statement.
As for people whose mortgages were “stolen”? Ridiculous statement. Obviously they didn’t read the fine print when they signed their mortgage agreements. Most of these folks were not able to afford the homes they were in. The market corrected and they lost their homes. YES, it’s a shame, but there you have it. The market selected them for death. If you can’t afford your home, you have no business signing the mortgage documents. We cannot artificially prop up PERSONAL or GOVERNMENTAL stupidity or insolvency!!!
Then I saw your statement: “the economy thrived when the tax rate on the wealthy was 90%…”. Obviously you’re not old enough to remember or choose to forget that it was under Reagan that the ludicrous tax rate was repealed. Only then did the economy kick into high gear. Your facts, your command of basic economic principles is woefully inadequate. God help you, David.
Regards-
Charles
Furthermore, in lieu of my comments, just recall your last visit to the DMV for another dose of people working for a governmental institution who feel entitled to spit upon and degrade the taxpayer. Visit almost any governmental office for a dose of disrespect. Have you ever in your wildest dreams imagined a system where the people we pay have more attitude than the people who pay them??
This is a simple example which crystallizes my dismal opinion of almost every governmental body in existence and my total lack of faith in large organizations of almost any kind. I believe in the INDIVIDUAL. Be he rich or poor, tall or short, blah blah, he is an individual and in this country he can still aspire to be anything he wants. Mr. Bly here would like to tell you what you should be and appropriate your salary as he sees fit, but resist this with all your might! Take a moment, pour yourself a drink and read the Constitution! It has no truck with these idiotic ideas of redistribution of wealth and such. It relegates most responsibility to the states and limits the power of the feds.
Forget the fools who have polluted this system. Let’s go back to basics.
Charles
Charles,
I hope you do read the Constitution the Preamble begins: We the People. You are wrong about Reagan, he raised taxes. Do you really think that ‘Trickle down economics’ worked and grew the economy? This too is historically inaccurate. The only conclusion I can draw from what you say is that you do not know the Constitution, you do not understand the 2008 financial crisis, you do not know history and you do not know economics. The reason the government and its various agencies are financially struggling is because since Reagan and Grover Norquist there has been an all out effort to starve government. The economy has suffered because of it. We no longer invest in the infrastructure that we need as a nation because so called ‘conservatives’ have told us we don’t have to pay for them, they believe such things happen magically through the so-called ‘free’ market. ‘Faith-based’ economics is a dead idea that needs to be abandoned. I don’t want to tell any one what they may or may not do with their lives that is what corporate America wants to do. They want to control everything about your life — what you eat, what you read, what you think, what you learn, because it is profitable for them to do so. The only force that might stand in their way is a free government but they are doing a good job with the help of the Supreme Court of buying government. You fantasize that you are free and individuals are supreme, it is an illusion, under a corporatist system we are all slaves to a few super-wealthy individuals. Government is what might be able to level the playing field but forget it if the super rich own everything. Government is only as good as we make it. We abandon it at our peril. You sound as though you think individuals rich or poor are equal. But that could only be true under the law supported by a government willing to enforce it. A government supported by taxes and a free minded people willing to serve in it. It is our only hope. The alternative is lawlessness or slavery, which do you choose?
There will be no agreement here. I can see that. Reagan dropped the top tax rate from 70% to 28%. This I know. Other tax rates maybe not but that one is an easily-looked-up Wikipedia factoid. You seem to fear and hate the rich. Who do you think it is that hires people? You, yourself, are hired by a person wealthier than you are. Anyway, David, it’s a moot point. You won’t change your mind. Neither will I. BTW, I am an example of someone who deeply understood what was about to happen in 2008. I bought one foreclosed home from someone who overextended himself back in 2008 and another short sale this year (2011). So for every sucker who PT Barnum spoke about, there is a person like me who gets rich from their stupidity. In a Capitalist system, there is also a multiplier effect for this kind of gained wealth. From government institutions there is not. They waste money and throw it around like WC paper. Why should they care? It’s not THEIR money. What is not yours is not precious… It’s human nature.
Address for me, if you will, the failures of government in all of its fields of endeavor. I listed above in this post several major failures of government to produce positive results. How it is possible that you believe in collectivism like that when it fails every time? The massive expansions we have experienced are during periods of unfettered capitalism. Show me one socialist state which can compare themselve to the Golden Age of capitalism which this country experienced decades ago.
You talk about the high-minded government officials “serving” us. That’s crap. There are no “high-minded” “selfless” government employees. If you want to see some of that, then put HARSH term limits on all 3 branches of government. As for Barrack Obama? Please make his term end now. He is a totally inexperienced arrogant anti-American Manchurian candidate. I blame GWB for this though. If people weren’t so sick of him, this blowhard Obama wouldn’t have stood a chance. I nominate Barrack Obama as history’s first post-modern and by far the worst president in US history. Those, like him (and you), who side with the masses but secretly desire to control them, will sink this country.
One more thing: You talk about government being able to level the playing field. This is a Robin Hood fantasy. Surely you know who gets dummies like Obama elected? It’s the big corporations who don’t really care who gets elected as long as they accept their exorbitant contributions and act accordingly. You made me laugh hard at that one. “Uncle Sam watching out for the little guy”. Good luck with your imaginary world, David. The only defense against tyranny is a well-armed citizenry with voting and property rights. Forget government watching out for the little guy against corporate bigwigs. They are all on the same team, David. The super rich and government officials are collaborating quite well already, contrary to your vision.
While I respect your heartfelt concern for the “little people”, I find your approach naive and wrong. Good luck to you and enjoy your fantasy world. It is too late to change for you… and perhaps for this entire country.
Please watch the “Atlas Shrugged” movie, all of you who might be reading this exchange. Without successful entrepreneurs, our country is sunk. The sooner we all realize it, the better off we will all be. Self-made “Robin Hoods” like David here, or Barrack Obama himself should make their own money and relax on this socialist rhetoric.
Regards-
Charles
Charles,
I would be wary of relying to heavily on Wikipedia for facts and history. It may also be unsound to make your judgements about what happened in the recent recession based on an isolated incident from your own experience. Here are some other sources you could consider:
“Ronald Reagan does hold a special place in the annals of tax policy, and not just as the patron saint of tax cuts. To his credit, he was more pragmatic and responsible than that; he followed his huge 1981 tax cut with two large tax increases. In fact, no peacetime president has raised taxes so much on so many people. This is not a criticism: the tale of those increases tells you a lot about what was right with President Reagan’s leadership, and what’s wrong with the leadership of George W. Bush.’ – Paul Krugman
In the 1980’s Ronald Reagan ushered in a new era in American economics as he cut the top tax bracket from 70% down to 50% and then down again to 28%. In order to get support for doing this from the people, and also from politicians, a very crafty set of lies were produced. As David Stockman, then Reagan’s budget director, put it: giving small tax cuts across the board to all brackets was simply a “Trojan Horse” that was used to get approval for the huge top tax bracket cuts. “Trickle-Down” was a term used by Republicans that meant giving tax cuts to the rich. Stockman explains that:
“It’s kind of hard to sell ‘trickle down,’ so the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really ‘trickle down.’ Supply-side is ‘trickle-down’ theory.”
“Yes, Stockman conceded, when one stripped away the new rhetoric emphasizing across-the-board cuts, the supply-side theory was really new clothes for the unpopular doctrine of the old Republican orthodoxy.”
“…the Reagan coalition prevailed again in the House and Congress passed the tax-cut legislation with a final frenzy of trading and bargaining. Again, Stockman was not exhilarated by the victory. On the contrary, it seemed to leave a bad taste in his mouth, as though the democratic process had finally succeeded in shocking him by its intensity and its greed. Once again, Stockman participated in the trading — special tax concessions for oil — lease holders and real-estate tax shelters, and generous loopholes that virtually eliminated the corporate income tax. Stockman sat in the room and saw it happen.”
“‘Do you realize the greed that came to the forefront?’ Stockman asked with wonder. ‘The hogs were really feeding. The greed level, the level of opportunism, just got out of control.’”
The Education of David Stockman 1981:
http://www. theatlantic. com/politics/budget/stockman.htm
I do agree our economy does need successful entrepreneurs, just as we need good workers and teachers and consumers. They are one of many important players in our economy. Not the only ones, not gods to be worshiped. Ayn Rand’s philosophy could be described as narcissistic nihilism. She was an atheist who thought compassion was evil. It is difficult to imagine any one who cares about our future would seriously endorse her extreme ideology. Fortunately, “Atlas Shrugged” from what I hear is as boring as it is wrong headed.
Here you are, folks! My thoughts in a nutshell. No more long-winded diatribes from Charles (after this one… hehe)!
http://www.redstate.com/lukematthews/2010/11/14/let-the-hand-wringing-commence/
And I quote from the article on the David Bly subject:
“Take David Bly, for example. Bly is a poor high school English teacher who has been a leader in the fight for universal health care and other socialist schemes and experiments. He just wants to rob the productive class at gunpoint, take their cash and give it to his allies in the public sector unions and governmental services. He was fighting to make the Democratic Party the purveyor of all economic good and the champion of the elite. But, those dastardly businesses ganged up on him and spoke truth to power. ”
A HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER! Aha! It all becomes clear now. He was a card-carrying member of one of the most vile and unproductive unions in the history of the United States: THE TEACHER’S UNION! These folks + the laxity of the American family have destroyed the former intellectual prowess of the United States. Yet ANOTHER example of how government (in this case, State Govt) is incapable of producing good results. We are now somewhere around 25th in Mathematics in the world today and around 27th in Science. WTF, david!!?? How dare you preach to any of us about how great government is when you are an actual contributor to the demise of this country! The education system in this country is currently atrocious, but don’t take this the wrong way. I blame not only the school district administrators and unions, but the parents themselves, who are blithely watching our economic future swirl down the drain as we become more and more intellectually challenged at the hands of these bureaucrats. The state of our education is sufficient for an all-out revolution to take place in this country. We don’t need more money thrown at it. We need some common sense to take ahold and to throw out all these politically correct nimkampoops ruining our kids daily.
The problem here, folks, is that these guys can actually talk and discuss things which tug at your heart strings. They love to play with your emotions and your guilty conscience. Just remember one thing: David Bly and his cohorts are out to get your money…. if you don’t voluntarily give it to him, he will take it from you by legislative decree. People like this say high-minded things, but their hearts are truly green… not the green color of dollar bills, but the ugly ancient green of ENVY. Resist these fools at all cost! God help us all.
Regards-
Charles